At the conservative AmericaFest mega-convention in Phoenix, Arizona, former Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin said on Sunday she will not get vaccinated for Covid-19, and she encouraged people to “stiffen their spines” in resistance to vaccine mandates. Palin got the virus in April and recovered.
“It’ll be over my dead body that I’ll have to get a shot. I will not do it. I won’t do it, and they better not touch my kids, either,” she said.
Turning Point USA President Charlie Kirk interviewed Palin, and asked her what she says to people who are getting fired because they are refusing the Covid vaccine.
“I think if enough of us, rise up and say, ‘No, enough is enough,’ there are more of us than there are of them,” Palin said, to thunderous applause. Palin said. “There is an empowerment in a group like this where we can kind of feed off each other and really be strong.”
Chugiak Eagle River Assemblywoman Jamie Allard and former LaMex Restaurant owner Trina Johnson are at the conference and said they are going to try to get Kirk to Alaska to talk to young people in the 49th state.
“They love her down here,” Allard said of Palin in Arizona. “She could not move through the civic center without a flock following her.”
Palin comments were echoed by many others at the convention, including Fox News commentator Tucker Carlson.
“No one should be forced to get the vaccine against their will under any circumstances whatsoever,” said Kirk. “Period. End of story.”
Other conservative superstars on the agenda of the conservative gathering include Project Veritas’ James O’Keefe, Dr. Sebastian Gorka, Benny Johnson, Jesse Watters, Congresswoman Lauren Boebert, Congresswoman Kat Cammack, Jack Posobiec, Candace Owens, Sen. Ted Cruz, Brandon Tatum, Kyle Rittenhouse, Donald Trump Jr., Tucker Carlson, Kayleigh McEnany, Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor-Greene, and Dennis Prager of Prager U.
The agenda and more information about Turning Point USA at this link.
Performances by Dee Jay Silver and Lee Greenwood, Russell Dickerson, and Dustin Lynch are also on the agenda.
About 20,000 people are attending the conference, which is aimed at younger Americans. In addition to Palin, Allard, and Johnson, there were at least five other Alaskans at the event.
Turning Point USA is a 501(c)3 non-profit organization whose mission is to identify, educate, train, and organize students to promote freedom. Its founder and president, Charlie Kirk, age 28, started the organization in 2012 to push back on the Marxist indoctrination on America’s college campuses.
Actually, over MANY peoples’ dead bodies will they get ‘vaccinated’ (sic) — or more precisely, they have been ‘vaccinated’ (sic).
Well, Jeff, there’s one helluva lot bigger pile of unvaccinated dead people than there is of vaccinated ones. Just ask anyone who works in an ICU, or a morgue for that matter.
I know you think that if you scream your anti-vax message loud enough you might silence that little niggling voice of Doubt in your head. Unfortunately, the virus remains unimpressed by your exhortations, and will do its damage all the same when as it enters your body.
I really feel sorry for you, but of course I still hope that you are never afflicted in spite of your purported (yes, purported) disbelief.
Best of luck.
And no one seems to be taking those who have had Covid and are immune at this point, like me. Why do I need a shot? I’ve proven I’m immune by being exposed, and then being exposed. My body has done its duty.
Don’t count on your supposed immunity being permanent. Such immunity fades with time as does that acquired by vaccination. The science says. Search Google scholar for COVID immunity durability. A recent article estimates reinfections by COVID-19 will occur in half the victims in less than 16 months and the other half in more than 16 months (“Reinfection by SARS-CoV-2 under endemic conditions would likely occur between 3 months and 5·1 years after peak antibody response, with a median of 16 months. “) Think of it as being “Boosted.”
That’s still unproven and still FAR more durable and effective than the proven levels of durability and effectiveness of the shots. With respect, what you are saying doesn’t make logical sense. Think independently a little bit about this. If I believe they only have the best intentions, I believe they are only wanting the people that have already had covid to also get the shots because they believe there is no harm and maybe some benefits in that and they don’t want people to easily and falsely say they’ve already had covid to avoid having to get the shots.
“Last fall, there were reports that antibodies waned quickly after infection with the virus that causes COVID-19, and mainstream media interpreted that to mean that immunity was not long-lived. But that’s a misinterpretation of the data. It’s normal for antibody levels to go down after acute infection, but they don’t go down to zero; they plateau.”
The researchers found a biphasic pattern of antibody concentrations against SARS-CoV-2, in which high antibody concentrations were found in the acute immune response that occurred at the time of initial infection.
The antibodies declined in the first months after infection, as should be expected, then leveled off to about 10% to 20% of the maximum concentration detected. In a commentary on the study, Andreas Radbruch and Hyun-Dong Chang of the German Rheumatism Research Centre Berlin explained:
“This is consistent with the expectation that 10–20% of the plasma cells in an acute immune reaction become memory plasma cells, and is a clear indication of a shift from antibody production by short-lived plasma cells to antibody production by memory plasma cells. This is not unexpected, given that immune memory to many viruses and vaccines is stable over decades, if not for a lifetime.”
When a new infection occurs, cells called plasmablasts provide antibodies, but when the virus is cleared, longer lasting memory B cells move in to monitor blood for signs of reinfection.
Bone marrow plasma cells (BMPCs) also exist in bones, acting as “persistent and essential sources of protective antibodies.” According to Ellebedy, “A plasma cell is our life history, in terms of the pathogens we’ve been exposed to,” and it’s in these long-lived BMPCs were immunity to SARS-CoV-2 resides.
Actually, Whidbey, the pile of corpses from the so-called “vaccines” (sic) is apparently growing larger and larger, and growing faster and faster, as the multitude of negative ramifications of taking an experimental mRNA ‘vaccine’ continue to mount, and likely will continue to mount for many years and decades. Meanwhile, the establishment propagandists in whom you implicitly and naively trust will continue to trumpet misinformation and lies, and blame all the ADE-related deaths on “the unvaccinated”, in contrast to all truth and reason. And people like you will continue to gullibly swallow their lies without question or challenge.
Jefferson: Its clear that you don’t trust establishment propagandists, Marxists, CDC, FDA, any voice of the government to give you satisfactory information. But you have sources of information that guide you. What attributes of your sources convince you? Do they have access to better science? Are they free of commercial or political motivation? What makes them better? Serious. I’d really like to know.
Evan, that is a good and interesting question, although difficult in practice to answer. But what I look for in evaluating the worth of any information source is their pattern (if any) of political biases, and in the logic of the arguments used in their most prominent headline stories. If the arguments in their most featured stories do not hold up logically, then I can conclude that they will probably not hold up factually either.
I think your shrilling of Jefferson is the real hypocrisy here. The dead bodies were created through Democrat Governors pushing sick people, against Federal Law, into Nursing Homes and literally killing the elderly. Add on top of this the false numbers being reported by hospitals that were being paid to call a death, a COVID death and yes, you get piles of dead folks. There is no doubt in my head that the so called Vaccine that isn’t a Vaccine, is the real crime against humanity. A Federal Judge has already ruled that Pfizer must release their data on their poison that they were intentionally trying to hide for 75 years. The early released pages have shown it killed over 1200 people in the first 90 days of being administered. The fact you actually believe the propaganda being force fed to you by the corrupt media is why I feel sorry for you!
“The early released pages have shown it killed over 1200 people in the first 90 days of being administered [worldwide]. ” That is not what is shown by that data. As I recognize your extreme intellect I leave it to you to figure out what the data does show rather than spoon feed you. But, that aside. during the same period about 2500 people were killed in highway incidents which involved DWI/DUI in America alone.
Michael Johnson: those are some extraordinary claims! Democrat Governors forcing sick people into nursing homes. The Vaccine is the real crime against humanity. Can you prove any of this, maybe provide a skeptic a reference for further inquiry? Any evidence at all?
Cuomo.
“Well, Jeff, there’s one helluva lot bigger pile of unvaccinated dead people than there is of vaccinated ones. Just ask anyone who works in an ICU, or a morgue for that matter.”
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Interesting. The nurse that lives across the street works in an ICU, and I did ask her. Not sure where you are getting your data, but it certainly is not from ICU workers. (Oh, and I know someone at the morgue as well.)
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Please share with us the source of your information. I would be very curious to see what the real numbers are.
Once again you miss the point Whidbey. Those UNHEALTHY unvaccinated chunkers, with three or more comorbidities would have died from/with whatever.
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Those HEALTHY people, kids for example, who die AFTER the clot-shot that are the control markers.
#followthescience #itsapandemicoftheobese
You screamed faux collusion for years, did it create doubt in your head?
I swear I heard Palin in a commercial put out by the SOA encouraging Alaskans to get the Jab earlier this year.
I’m sorry, Sarah who?
Dog: right, who are we going to trust, a washed-up never-was like her or thousands of medically trained, science based professionals?
Yes Evan, thousands of Medical Practitioners worldwide and many Nobel Prize winning Scientists have have made the case for NOT TAKING the m-RNA treatment. Who you gonna trust? The science or the politicians like Fauci?
BTW, like the blind squirrel who on occasion finds an Acorn, so has Sarah swerved into the truth here.
Too bad you are unable to see that.
Your main blunder here is saying Fauci is a politician. He has been a top scientist for essentially his entire adult life.
Bill, sometimes I wonder if you believe your own Bravo Sierra.
“He has been a top scientist for essentially his entire adult life.”
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Nope.
He may not be a politician, but he ceased to be a scientist the moment he took a directorship position in the Federal Gov. He has been a bureaucrat for most of his entire adult life. I am pretty sure that Fauci has not actually done any real medical work in decades.
Not a scientist a big pharma co-hort international research director. I do not consent that Americans work and send money overseas to those who want America “failed”, “changed”, while Americans have their medical liberties usurped by hateful enemies of the US.
Fauxci has hardly practiced any actual medicine in his entire sordid career, Bill, and to the extent that he did so it was decades ago. Fauxci is simply another petty tyrant of a bureaucrat, drunk on power and his goal to chip, track and micromanage every aspect of Americans’ lives, in the best tradition of his bedfellows in Communist China.
Education and experience doesn’t help if one is still fundamentally evil and stupid.
He’s the top medical bureaucrat that loves flattering everyone with his presence only if they flatter back and has ignored many of the top scientists opinions and has deployed scorn and censorship and has removed funding so he can remain in his position because he has had decades to develop his empire of minions. But you know, that’s just my opinion. Who am I but somebody that has no vested interest.
A bureaucrat is not a politician. Further, what does practicing medicine have to do this??
Fauci is still a scientist who is in charge of those actually doing the science work-that is a far cry from a pol.
Bill (and Jere): Point is, he’s not a top scientist, and you are right, he’s not a politician. He’s a bureaucrat that is masterfully controlling other bureaucrats, politicians, and as you say “the ones doing the actual science work”. Not sure you should be spending too much of your energy defending such a narcissist that he is, who clearly isn’t afraid to do inhumane things. He tortured Beagles in a way that should flip most everyone’s stomach. But again, that’s just my opinion. But it’s also the opinion of many doctors with a lot of credentials and a history of scientific achievement, in other words, “top scientists”. For example, the guy that invented the PCR testing method, Kary Mullis, thought Fauci was less than useless. Dr. Fareed is another one out of Harvard who has had much better success at preventing hospitalization than all of the minds in the government healthcare agencies. And the nobel prize winning French virologist believes Fauci is deceitful, and that’s why Fauci has commanded the media to remove his opinion from any spotlight. The virologist believes the virus obviously came from the lab and that the mass vaccination strategy is a bad one because it’s helping to accelerate all of the variants. That’s actually a common opinion amongst virologists. They think the vaccines should have been used for the most vulnerable first while the healthy population got options for different treatments and prevention protocols so that the virus wouldn’t mutate like it has. Again that’s just some opinions, but there is no “consensus” except the one manufactured by the Fauci/ big pharma empire. I know you are tempted to poke holes in my argument or something like this is some game I’m trying to win. I’m not trying to win a game. You can take it or leave it. But I really don’t think you should be framing Fauci as a “top scientist”. He’s a bureaucrat, the highest paid bureaucrat out of 4 million government employees.
Cite source(s) in support of your claims, please.
Schenker: “Montagnier won the Nobel Prize for medicine in 2008 with fellow scientist Francoise Barre-Sinoussi for their work identifying the HIV virus.” That’s different than what you wrote.
And Fauci is NOT a politician.
Dog and Evan: “Sarah who?” “…medically trained, science based professionals?”
Marxist agenda driven elitist demigod shills, who would destroy our republic for personal gain.
It was medical professionals like them who helped Hitler come into power. Medical professionals like them who performed horrendously evil experiments on people. Professionals like Fauci who did surgical experiments on Beagles, without anesthesia, that had their voice box removed so they wouldn’t be able to cry out in pain.
Are those the professionals you’re referring to?
Sarah washed up? She gets big bucks to speak to large crowds. Anybody offering to pay either of you to hear you speak?
The shrill of her squawky voice is like fingernails on a chalkboard to me. That coon dog backwoods Yang Yang talk of hers is a quick turn off. It reminds me of Obama. When he used to speak a blind person could tell you the majority of the people in the crowd by ethnicity. I heard Obama giving some speech and he was talking slap jam ghetto with the best of them. The next time I heard him he was stiff as a board and was talking to a bunch of white businessmen. I’d rather they just be themselves. Anytime you heard Trump talk, you know you was getting the real man. He was full of crap a lot of the times but he was being real.
” …. or thousands of ‘educated yet idiot’ politicians-cum-doctors who are hopelessly in thrall to the power establishment narrative and agenda, and to the corporate-pharmaceutical-medical-industrial complex?”
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Fixed it for you.
Did you just say cum doctor? Who is that some sort of a bent carrot clinic like you see advertised on TV?
It is Latin for “as”, Greg, and is often use in the construction “person-cum(“as”)-position”, where there is an inherent conflict, irony or contradiction between the person and the position in that construction.
Get your mind out of the gutter!
Oh ok. I never took latin.
Summa cum laude is an honorary title used by educational institutions to signify a degree that was earned “with the highest distinction.”
You mut mean Cheech and Chong? Ozzy? According to the left these losers are medical pros too.
No one ever accused her of being smart
Sarah – not you! lololol
I thought she was gonna run for Senate against the Princess.
I support her position, but question the value of her bombast. Just say I won’t, and if you try to force it you won’t like it.
She’s not the only one! It’s not about health, obviously! It’s about power and money and control. We have to fight this.
We have about 100 days until civil unrest here in the US.
Censored 907: What do you mean?
Please don’t give her any press. Shes not as milfy as she was in the past and resonates only with an older demographic with each passing day.
Actually Sarah Palin resonates with people who were never governed by her, like the AZ crowd. Remembering her dysfunctional stint as governor still makes me cringe, so don’t besmirch “the older crowd.” While Sarah can mix it up and get libs mad, she should never ever again be in a position of real authority. We just don’t need all that chaos.
I don’t know. I thought she did OK as Gov. Didn’t she line item veto some half billion from the budget one year? That is the kind of governor we need. Oh, and signing into law the fiscal responsibility statute, which requires publicly funded projects to have a lifecycle cost disclosed was a huge benefit to the AK people.
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Granted, there were some less than perfect items as well, but let’s be real here. No politician will ever make 100% of their constituents happy.
Sure, let’s put the intellectual superstars like Biden and AOC in positions of authority.
Sarah has great instincts for common sense. The chaos was all caused by the corrupt media and the political assassins. People like you set out to destroy her and largely succeeded. Too bad you sold your soul to do it.
Oh BS!
Sarah Palin’s leadership style and the fact that she bailed was not favorable to the state. Sarah made good speeches, but in general in my opinion her actions were haphazard and without a plan.
It appears that you believe to disagree with a political figure can only mean to wish to destroy her. You clearly have no understanding of our system of government. It is an adversarial system designed to give a voice to all, to find the solution for the task at hand, that most can accept.
As an aside, I hate to break it to you, sadly that Biden guy IS in charge (at least on paper). If you put him there, shame on you!
“…and the fact that she bailed…”
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Bailed?
She took a promotion.
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Let me see. As Governor she was on the clock 24/7, half the population hated her, and frankly the pay sucks.
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So, when offered a job that paid millions, had her working a few hours a week, and allowed her to talk about subjects she was passionate about, she took it.
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I would have as well.
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Only an idiot would have remained in an elected political position when they could make 100-1000X as much in the private sector.
CB, I suppose we will disagree on this one. Yes Sarah did very well for herself and good for her. When we vote for a politician, we reasonably expect them to serve the term they are hired for. It is called public service. The tumult she left behind when she resigned early, did the state no favors, as Sean Parnell felt compelled to continue her agenda, but could not pull it off. She could have served her term and then done the book deal, like all these other politicos do.
The vax is a personal decision each person should make. We must stand against government coercion to force compliance. The same people who declare “Our body, our choice” for abortion are blind to its application regarding mandating a vax. When all is said and done, the dictators who forced quarantines, lockdowns, masks, vax as a condition of employment etc. will have their day of reckoning. It will eventually be revealed that their motive was not public health but control. And there will be hell to pay for it.
It’s not just the people that don’t want the shot that should “rise up”. Everybody should rise up that thinks it should be a personal choice and thinks the government and the medical establish needs to stop holding jobs, the economy and individual liberties hostage until we achieve their unrealistic goals. If the FDA and the CDC think people should get boosters to protect against the omicron or sigma or kappa or whatever for whatever reason, sure go ahead. But let people make that choice for their own protection and offer it to them. Lets get on with things and stop creating reasons to blame, fear and fight each other, and start enjoying each other and enjoying life freely again.
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But… I think we might not need to resist much longer. If omicron is really as weak as it seems and it takes over, this is going to be over by the summer. Then hopefully, with everyone relaxed, the investigations can begin.
This will never be over until the left can’t use it for political advantage.
This hasn’t been a public health issue for a very long time.
If ever.
Yep. Totally agree. But don’t tell them that. It just makes them more enraged because they have no idea what there egos are doing to protect their souls from crashing down with humility. Little do they know how relieving it actually would feel for them to be free to accept some fault. They are full of so much anxiety and stress and they need a target to blame. Deep down they are really fearful that they might come to the conclusion that they may be the biggest source of all of the problems for themselves and that would devastate their entire goal and high of being able to say to themselves that they are morally superior, and just overall superior.
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I’m afraid you are right and if it isn’t covid, it will be climate change and more pandering and pity and demonizing based on race, or they’ll even just start a major witch hunt for anybody they antagonize to the point of severe reaction. There is a reason why they need it to be controversial for them to decide to care about it. They need the division so they can keep saying they are better. And when I say “they” I’m not only talking about the left or all in the left. It’s the ones that are in the fight to prove they are better than everyone else and should therefore control everyone. It’s the ones that are the quickest to shame others and think shame is a beautiful and effective weapon of destruction and that’s why they never want it used on themselves.
Geez, after that screed, I do indeed feel superior. I have the skills of discernment, reason, humility, kindness and patience. You and Jefferson and Myers have different skills.
Oh, I know how you feel. Obviously. Evan, if I could help you I sincerely would. I’ve tried. I’m sincere when I say that. I truly wish I could help you realize that you aren’t acting out of discernment, reason, humility, and definitely not with kindness and patience, at least in this forum. I know you feel my “screed” is directed at you, but it doesn’t have to be. But it’s up to you. You’re beyond my abilities, and I honestly feel ashamed for being so naive and arrogant to think it was even possible for me to persuade someone in your state of mind in any shape or form. I truly am not interested in engaging with you further. You offer me nothing but insults and frustration. I think most people feel that way here as well, unless they are here with your same motives. Perhaps these forums aren’t a healthy thing for either one of us.
You hit the nail on the head. This whole deal is just causing people to turn on each other. I hope you are right about your last thought.
The problem is the people that think everybody that got vaccinated with the third shot including the editor of this site, was an idiot forgetting the so-called kid killing clock shot any number of nicknames that’s been assigned to it. What happened to my body my choice? If I want to get the damn shot if I want to get a hundred shots what difference does it make to you? It doesn’t make a bit of difference to me if you don’t get the shot. I originally thought I wanted you to stay the hell away from me if you didn’t get the shot but now I don’t even care anymore. So you do your thing and we’ll do our thing and find something else to b**** about.
Greg, nobody is believing that you shouldn’t get your freedom because you got what they think is poison. Nobody. I haven’t seen anyone say that you should be blamed for something just because you received “clot” shots. Or that you shouldn’t get the right to choose. Sorry if other people’s opinions get you so worked up and offended. I thought you were all about keeping the conversation going. You definitely feel free to say whatever you want to say, even if it is insulting and not real thought out. You have, in your own way, pretty thick skin and that’s what I enjoy about you. But you don’t have thick skin about someone calling your choice a bad one. People saying that doesn’t mean they believe you shouldn’t have the right to choose, and those people aren’t the ones keeping the world hostage and keeping us from moving on. It’s the opposite side doing precisely what you are accusing the disbelievers of the shots of doing.
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Putting what I believe is your misinterpretation aside, I’m sincerely glad to see that you and I agree on this:
“If I want to get the damn shot if I want to get a hundred shots what difference does it make to you? It doesn’t make a bit of difference to me if you don’t get the shot. I originally thought I wanted you to stay the hell away from me if you didn’t get the shot but now I don’t even care anymore. So you do your thing and we’ll do our thing and find something else to b**** about.” This should have been everyone’s conclusion from the very beginning and we would have been able to get on with our lives, as you stated. The problem is the incompetence from our leadership (not just Biden) is wanting to use finger pointing and division and holding everyone’s freedoms hostage in order to motivate people to get the shots. Seems like truth and understanding and freedom to choose would work a lot better, but my suspicion is that they don’t want to use the truth because it would be too discouraging for them. BUT… that’s just my opinion. You do you Greg. You already know you don’t need anybody’s permission for that anyway.
The Faucis of the world are running out of time and they know it. Their crimes against humanity are being exposed every day and they suffering a death by a thousand cuts. Unfortunately, these monsters will become more dangerous as they are backed into a corner. Things will probably get much worse before they get better.
Well, for once she isn’t wrong.
Speaking fees are hefty for convention speakers and assume she’s no exception. Wondering are the speakers from Americafest Paid? or do they volunteer to speak and what actually is Americafest and its agenda?
Nobody cares Sarah. Just go away will you?
If there is anything we learned from Palin is how to stay culturally and politically relevant with passionate conviction.
She is not relevant in any sense of the word.
Sarah, come back and run for Governor!
It’s not about getting vaccinated because it’s an effective means of avoiding death by COVID. Even though the chance of actually dying from COVID is less than 1% for persons 0 to 54 years old…I understand people are still scared. The concept lost on most of the commenters here is that folks have the Constitutional right to refuse to be vaccinated and can choose to avoid illness and death in other ways. Vaccines of any kind don’t prevent the contraction or spread of the illness. They are only useful in shoring up the bodies attempt to fight serious illness by preparing the immune system. Some people prefer to decide for themselves whether they want an experimental procedure such as the mRNA viral spike (S) glycoprotein of SARS-CoV-2 being injected into their body. There are people out there that for religious, faith based and naturalistic (health) reasons don’t get anything put in or on their bodies. If I don’t want the vaccine, then I don’t get vaccinated. It’s that simple. If you are vaccinated, distancing, masking in crowded areas, washing your hands, shielding your cough and sneezes, upping your Vit C and D, getting good rest, eating right and staying away from immune compromised people then it won’t matter if I’m immunized or not. The vaccine doesn’t prevent getting or spreading. The Vaccine isn’t really even a vaccine. It’s an immune therapy treatment. You have a right to say no. Without repercussions or having a stigma attached to your decision.
“It’s not about getting vaccinated because it’s an effective means of avoiding death by COVID.”
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OK, prove it. Seriously.
Please.
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The first wave of deaths were those most susceptible to the disease. (Just like in every other panicdemic the human race has ever gone through. The follow on deaths are those with serious co-morbiditities. Then the death rate drops off significantly. We were in the dropping off significantly phase of the pandemic curve when the vaccines started getting jabbed into arms, and now people are claiming the vaccines are responsible.
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So, please prove your statement correct, or mine wrong. Thanks!
“folks have the Constitutional right to refuse to be vaccinated” Not according to SCOTUS as decided in Jacobson v. Massachusetts. What IS in question is the extent to which the Federal government may make vaccination compulsory and how. This question is working its way through the courts at the present time. The fifth circuit court of appeals issued a temporary stay on implementation of part of Biden’s plan, the sixth circuit court lifted that stay. Next stop is, presumably, SCOTUS.
States have challenged Fed mandates too. Just as in cases involving masking, the scope and extent of such mandates as well as the jurisdiction issuing the mandates are up for SCOTUS review. Comparing what the prior decision said with what is being proposed now makes one wonder if the proposals are actually serious of just some perverted attempt at political theater.
Personally, I find this positive and long overdue. I’d rather see how the Constitutionally prescribed process actually works rather than rely on half-baked legal theories of totally unqualified citizens writing on the internet!
Jere,
It’s worth mentioning that in the case of Jacobson v. Massachusetts, Henning Jacobsen was never forced to take a vaccine, he was however forced to pay a fine for not taking a vaccine. SCOTUS through numerous cases has previously narrowed the scope to which the Federal Government can mandate vaccination. In fact there is no federal law granting authority to mandate vaccines, other than the executive branch in limited circumstances regarding immigration and the military. The authority to mandate vaccination has been held with state and local authorities.
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Alas, we are getting into the territory of “half-baked legal theories of totally unqualified citizens writing on the internet!”
There is a reason there aren’t many precedents for this. Actually at this scale with this amount of coercion, there is no precedent because nobody has been so tyrannical and unAmerican to even try it. And we have seen far worse pandemics than this before.
Would you like a list of all the vaccines students. Are required to have for enrollment in a school. Non of which causes them to act like a insufferable drama queen?
Brian: I never thought of that. Neither the did the courts that stopped the mandates… You are totally making an accurate comparison. So insightful. Thanks for your very useful comment. Wish everyone could be so objective.
I’m sort of with you in wanting to see the legal process do its job. But regardless of what’s consider possible with our constitution, I do not think it’s a good thing to let the executive branch have this kind of power. Do you realize that if vaccine mandates are upheld, then some day somebody you don’t agree with could mistakenly trust a treatment that you don’t trust thrust it onto the public and yourself and your family, such as mercury treatments and blood letting that supposedly where scientifically settled to be beneficial at that time. Thomas Jefferson saw the dangers of the medical profession being able to operate through the powers of government like this and using fear and people’s lack of expertise to become profiteers, egomaniacs, and tyrants. And in my opinion, we are living through that very danger as a couple of unethical narcissistic dweebs that are medical bureaucrats can muscle the entire profession by working closely with big money (Gates Foundation) and the big pharma companies that have had over a century to find all of the levers to pull in every single well developed country to get approval and to maximize usage, price, sales and public perception. The fear of covid has been maximized while the risks of the shots have been swept under the rug as much as possible. This should not happen again. Epidemiology and vaccinology should not be commended for doing a good job here, along with the government agencies and the press. And big pharma needs to be reigned in and put on a leash so they know they can’t have this kind of influence ever again. Especially considering that even if this virus wasn’t made in a lab, we all have learned that it very easily could have been and we still have enemies and greedy people in this world, obviously. So I don’t see this as positive. These vaccine mandates should have squashed immediately. But I get why they haven’t been and its because of fear and dishonesty and people buying and trusting the hubris of medical doctors. Fauci has been in his position for how long? What do they say about absolute power? What type of person would be attracted to be in that kind of position for that long?
Justin Erickson: No comment on your above effort. I’m commenting here to somethings you said earlier.
1. I have not been a supporter of AF, so I don’t see why you’d reference me up there.
2. That the vaccinations have caused the emergence of variants doesn’t pass muster. First blush examination: Fact: Infections in the vaccinated pool (the collection of people who have been vaccinated) are rarer and – Fact: less serious than in the unvaccinated pool. Fact: mutations occur regularly in the viral replication process wherein the virus commandeers the host cell replication machinery to make copies of itself. The process is imperfect and (contrary to the early scientific thinking) does not contain robust error-correcting code. These facts mean that the number of different variants produced in and the distributed viral contamination produced by infections in the vaccinated pool will be far exceeded by those in and by infections in the unvaccinated pool. So the unvaccinated are responsible for both the majority of the circulating variants and the majority of cases of infections by mutated and unmutated virus particles. Please provide significant citations to science in support of your earlier claims of the purported danger of the vaccination program.
Some time earlier I suggested we would eventually see variants of the SARS-CoV-2 virus significantly more infectious than were known at the time. Omicron is with us now – its rate of spread rivals measles, the up-to-now most infectious virus on the planet. The other property of such diseases of concern is the mortality rate, case fatality rate, probability of an infection resulting in death. COVID-19, so far is happily not significantly deadly – <~1% in the USA all age mortality. When I mentioned the possibility of a highly infectious variant emerging I also suggested a variant with substantial virulence – possibly similar to MERS-CoV at ~30% fatality and possibly resulting from a "recombination event", possibly in Saudi Arabia wherein an individual infected by both viruses spreads a new virus which has high mortality AND high infectiousness. Or, maybe it happens in the normal course of the imperfect replication (mutation) of the virus in an infected person's cell. The number of possible mutations is really huge, the number of successful mutations, not so huge – but here we have omicron. Fewer than 4% of the world's population have been infected.
There is a long way to go. Whether the virus will finish the trip remains to be seen. SARS-Cov fizzled out. Watching and waiting.
Don't bother me with political stuff- I deplore the politicizing of this threat and have little stomach for reading about it or participating.
Where did I politicize it? You asked for sources from Robert so I gave you some sources, but you seem like you have worked hard to develop your opinion, so I see very little point in continuing a discussion. Omicron supposedly started in a vaccinated person. South Africa has already reported that after several weeks they aren’t seeing severe covid or long covid with Omicron patients. So that’s really promising news. Bad news is that 97% of the cases in Norway right now are vaccinated. But, if the variants are becoming less severe, that’s still not too alarming news unless those cases have high hospitalization rate. But so far I have seen that the hospitalization rate is still much lower. That’s what I have noticed. I have no medical background, just what I have read and heard and my own judgement. Respectfully I am not convinced that the variants aren’t more common because of mass vaccination despite the logic you present. Vaccinated are getting infected and it’s very possible the variants are being spread by the vaccinated and ending up in the unvaccinated and showing more symptoms and/or the unvaxxed are most definitely required to be tested more often. The entire NHL is vaxxed and it’s spreading like wildfire and many have been asymptomatic. that normally wouldn’t have been tested. Mostly, Robert said “thousands of Medical Practitioners worldwide and many Nobel Prize winning Scientists have have made the case for NOT TAKING the m-RNA treatment.” You asked him to cite sources. I provided some examples of top scientists. Maybe you think I’m politicizing it by discrediting the government agencies. Sorry, I don’t find them creditable and they are censoring doctors that have valuable differing scientific opinions with successes and data to support their positions, which is part of the scientific process, not the political process.
– I won’t be bothering you further.
You’ve probably heard the saying liars figure and figures lie? There is no science anymore. Today “Science” is the new Medieval Church doing the bidding of large Corporate interests. I could find any number of facts to debunk your claims and then the argument becomes about our facts and where we got them. Just like a religious argument about disciples. Here’s a fact: for those who don’t want to be political: too bad. Everything is political now. How does one discern truth? Where does the argument lead? Does it lead in the direction of more government control over our lives and profit for global industry? Then your facts are probably wrong. That is “Science” today and about all the average man has to go on. Sad. But (mostly) true.
There is no “vaccinated pool”. mNRA isn’t a vaccine, it’s a treatment which doesn’t follow the pattern of a vaccine. Apples and oranges.
Well there’s a medical professional to trust… No doubt she’s been heavily medicated for years. Not a shred of sober coherence in her ramblings.
That is quite the defamatory accusation. I’m surprised you posted it under your (real?) name. Remember “spite is a poison that you take to kill the other guy”.
She sounds “plastered” to me.
It’s not defamatory if it gives an excuse for her behavior. Defamatory would be to assume she is sober when she makes up words on the spot, referring proudly to conservatives as “right-winging, bitter-clinging proud clingers of our guns, our God, and our religions, and our Constitution”
Please, do me a favor, and translate that sober nonsense for me. But only if you honestly believe she is sober in her ramblings. Thanks in advance.
Palin is deeply unpopular here in AK, which is why she has to speak in the lower 48 amongst those who she has not governed.
When I read a column like this, and most of its accompanying comments, I feel the collective IQ of the American populace shrink by 20 points.
Homo, good point, I have observed that also, especially, whenever I read one of your vapid and predictable programed comments. And why stop at 20 points? Keep up the complete lack of anything resembling critical thought and continue onward through the fog with the blind allegiance to your party’s mantra and we might get down to a room temperature level of IQ.
Mr HE: Totally agree. The overstatement of commenters literally makes my head explode!
And what makes MY head explode, Evan, is the willful blindness and denial of reality by all you conformist, group-thinking lackies and sycophants of those in power. Your craven and submissive compliance to corrupt and self-serving authority makes me sick.
Jefferson: you just described my reasons for not accepting religion.
Evan, Sir, your reply may be the best comment I’ve ever read on MRAK. Well done.
We hear more from Sarah than that deadbeat un-American Obama. Something is right this Christmas season!
josephdj / December 22, 2021
There is no “vaccinated pool”. mNRA (sic) isn’t a vaccine, it’s a treatment which doesn’t follow the pattern of a vaccine. Apples and oranges.
josephdj, I don’t give a RA what you choose to call all or any one of the many internationally recognized vaccines against SARS-CoV-2. In my model I choose to refer to the collection of folks who have received doses of any one or more of the products so recognized all around the world by all but a tiny collection of misfits such as yourself according to accepted protocols and within prescribed timelines who are enjoying the freedom from infection or serious sickness resulting from that choice as “the vaccinated pool.” My model, my choice of terminology. You don’t like it? Make your own model.
“My model, my choice of terminology. You don’t like it? Make your own model.”
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You have all the right in the world to your model and choice of terminology – until you publish it in a public forum of which there are many suggestible, low information readers. My RA reply was to offer a moderation of your dogmatic, agenda driven, propaganda. At this point in time, the experts disagree on just about every aspect of Covid, and how to respond to it. Following is more RA that you don’t care about, but someone less arrogant and indoctrinated may want to have second opinions offered, so they can make better informed choices.
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“Last fall, there were reports that antibodies waned quickly after infection with the virus that causes COVID-19, and mainstream media interpreted that to mean that immunity was not long-lived. But that’s a misinterpretation of the data. It’s normal for antibody levels to go down after acute infection, but they don’t go down to zero; they plateau.”
The researchers found a biphasic pattern of antibody concentrations against SARS-CoV-2, in which high antibody concentrations were found in the acute immune response that occurred at the time of initial infection.
The antibodies declined in the first months after infection, as should be expected, then leveled off to about 10% to 20% of the maximum concentration detected. In a commentary on the study, Andreas Radbruch and Hyun-Dong Chang of the German Rheumatism Research Centre Berlin explained:
“This is consistent with the expectation that 10–20% of the plasma cells in an acute immune reaction become memory plasma cells, and is a clear indication of a shift from antibody production by short-lived plasma cells to antibody production by memory plasma cells. This is not unexpected, given that immune memory to many viruses and vaccines is stable over decades, if not for a lifetime.”
When a new infection occurs, cells called plasmablasts provide antibodies, but when the virus is cleared, longer lasting memory B cells move in to monitor blood for signs of reinfection.
Bone marrow plasma cells (BMPCs) also exist in bones, acting as “persistent and essential sources of protective antibodies.” According to Ellebedy, “A plasma cell is our life history, in terms of the pathogens we’ve been exposed to,” and it’s in these long-lived BMPCs were immunity to SARS-CoV-2 resides.
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The above is a second opinion, of which you seem to feel that nobody has a right to hear. Keep beating your agenda driven model. It just displays your arrogance, which clouds your ability to reason your way through difficult issues.
I don’t see what you posted as “a second opinion” at all,. It doesn’t even address the same issue I addressed in my post. I omitted the waning of immunity with time after vaccination and infection to “keep it simple.” I have no objection to more detailed and complete descriptions being presented.
I do object to the failure of the “authorities” to admit to the existence of the pool of folks (~12% of the US population) who have been infected and recovered as being part of the “immune” pool, and to “discount” the immunity of the vaccinated and recovered for their loss of immunity by respective time dependent factors in estimates of the total “immune” pool. Omicron appears to be forcing the issue upon them. I’m less than positively impressed by several other aspects of the presentation of the description of the situation too – but have no control or influence.
“Agenda driven model?” Yes – my agenda is to get the best facts describing the behavior of the human – virus interaction, use the best science available and try and make sense of it all commensurate with not stepping on physics, chemistry, biology, and math fundamentals.
Your agenda appears to stand in stark contrast to that – e.g. you don’t admit to immunity being conferred by the mRNA vaccines.
One of my favorite quotes from the popular science literature is from P. W. Atkins, “The Creation Revisited.” ” Once molecules have learnt to compete and to create other molecules in their own image, elephants, and things resembling elephants, will in due course be found roaming through the countryside. The details of the processes involved in evolution are fascinating, but they are unimportant; competing, replicating molecules with time on their hands will inevitably evolve.” This virus is a moving (evolving) target and we have the dubious privilege of having front road seats.
Have a nice day.
From all that I have read, the vax does perform somewhat like a speed-bump. It apparently inhibits infection, while not preventing it entirely. It buys time for the body’s immune system to catch up, and not be suddenly overwhelmed. This is especially valuable for tho elderly with comorbidities, who’s immune system is already close to being maxed out.
The vax appears to be unwarranted for those with healthy immune systems, even counter-productive in cases. It apparently can induce an immune response when there’s no specific infection. This would tend to use up much of the bodies reserve ability to produce targeted anti-bodies, specific to Covid.
When properly used, the vax can help many of the most vulnerable to survive where otherwise they couldn’t have.
Those who have survived Covid and developed natural antibodies, are the one’s with herd immunity. Those who have been vaxed, then caught Covid anyway, but still survived, have also developed some natural immunity. There are some indications though that they had a harder time developing herd immunity.
There’s plenty to read isn’t there? Many, many folks are rushing to publish what they hope are significant contributions as there could well be serious professional recognition awaiting those whose contributions stand out (can we say Nobel Prize?) I found some serious miscalculations today which actually diluted the force of the point the authors (at Cleveland Clinic) were trying to make :)) while prowling Google scholar for references on the subjects you raised. The upshot is being infected certainly confers some immunity of somewhat longer duration than the vaxs, but it is way too soon to think it is lifetime and does not seem to be so at this point in time. Reinfections post infection also occur at a rate on the order of 5-6% (unless my interpretation of the data is incorrect) just as did infections in the original mRNA clinical trials, so infection is not 100% preventive either.. Omicron appears to have better ability to evade the immune response :((
Enjoy the weekend.
The most important war is the one for your Personal Perfect Health. Fight it with naturopathic supplements and Ivermectin.
Seek advice from Naturopathic Doctors and do online research.
If a doctor is recommending the marxist innoculation you might inform them that Ivermectin is a real vaccine.
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