Downing: Wyoming Legislature’s proposed ban of electric vehicles is theater — with a message

By
Suzanne Downing
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82

By SUZANNE DOWNING

The state with the smallest population in the country has made a biggie-sized statement on electric vehicles. A handful of lawmakers are saying, “Keep your electric vehicles in California, thanks.”

In the Wyoming State Senate, a resolution to phase out and ban electric vehicle sales is, on the surface, a defense of the state’s economy, which is largely based on oil, gas and nearly three heads of cattle per every human in the state.

Wyoming is populated by folks who don’t usually believe in meddling in free markets. As the most Republican state in the nation, a homeland for free thinkers, oil workers, and pickup-driving ranchers, SJ0004 is a resolution that seems at odds with the libertarian mindset of so many Wyomingites. 

So what gives, Wyoming? Why so skeptical of electric vehicles? Why not embrace this great new electric future?

The resolution is a public policy directive, to be sure, and a warning shot over the bow that the state doesn’t have the infrastructure for EVs and doesn’t intend to at any time soon. The text says that by 2035, no more sales of these vehicles would be allowed in the Cowboy State. 

This is also a dollop of legislative theater, pushback against the environmental movement’s intent to end oil and gas production in America. The resolution is a way of getting a few inconvenient facts noticed by the public, at the state and national level. It starts a conversation about whether Wyoming would even survive as an economy if there was no market for its oil and gas.

There are but 59 charging stations in the entire state of Wyoming, which has 211,000 registered vehicles, most of them gas- or diesel-powered trucks. This is a working-class economy that does not lend itself to a Chevy Volt (charging time 4-13 hours).

From border to border on I-80, Wyoming is a more than 400-mile trip, which an EV cannot typically make on one charge. The State would need to install at least 40 charging stations for every 1,000 vehicles, and that’s under the best conditions. A place like Wyoming, with long lonely stretches of highway, is looking at a buildout of more than 8,000 charging stations. 

Wyoming drivers, a smart and practical type of American, have already figured this out. There are only about 500 registered electric vehicles in the state, and none is located on a desolate stretch outside of Arminto, population 5.

What the eco-dedicated lawmakers of California and New York don’t grasp is that northern states, with long stretches of wilderness and lonely highways, have another electric vehicle challenge: Battery life. The batteries in these cars drain faster when it’s cold out, and getting stranded by a dead vehicle is a life-threatening scenario in places like Wyoming, Montana, the Dakotas, and Alaska.

Last year, a group of electric car enthusiasts drove to Deadhorse, Alaska to prove that electric cars could go the distance. In advance, they sent diesel-powered trucks ahead to install portable charging stations along the Dalton Highway, so the cars could stop and recharge. They succeeded in making the 1,000-mile journey from Fairbanks, but they also proved that the use of electric cars in the Arctic are impractical and, to Alaskans, just plain silly. The electric vehicles made the trip in summer, but in winter, the batteries, car heaters and window defrosters would drain power at a much faster rate. Besides, no one drives the Dalton Highway in a compact sedan. This is truck country.

Also last year, the capital city of Alaska decided to buy an all-electric bus. The bus never was able to go the distance and is considered by some to be a boondoggle in this small city that has some of the mildest winter weather in Alaska. 

Juneau’s electric bus was promoted as capable of going 210 miles before needing a charge, enough to get through a 10-hour shift. But even in the mild summer weather – in the 50s and 60s — it only made it 170 miles. In winter, the bus could not even go 100 miles without needing more juice.

Wyoming’s climate is unforgiving. The disposal of these problematic cars is a landfill nightmare. The minerals needed to build them come from China. The senators know that. 

Environmentalists aren’t interested in these inconvenient truths; for them, it’s full-speed ahead for all-electric. And so, Wyoming lawmakers have disrupted the narrative. Looking ahead, this might even see it as a warning shot to those who might attempt to outlaw cattle ranching by regulating 1.2-million gaseous Wyoming cattle out of existence. This EV ban isn’t Wyoming’s first, and won’t be its last rodeo with the forces against American energy independence.

Suzanne Downing is publisher of Must Read Alaska.

Twist: Wyoming lawmakers look at banning electric car sales in the Cowboy State

82 COMMENTS

  1. Maybe some of these Wyoming legislators realize, unlike the average dumb-downed and complacent American, that they, and we, are at war — at war with totalitarian, globalist forces that are determined to destroy every remaining trace of freedom, and from all appearances determined to destroy civilization itself.

    • Very true Jefferson. Maybe Wyoming’s disrupted narrative and warning shot will help wake people up. It might also light the way showings others a pattern to follow so we can freely express a different viewpoint without being falsely accused of violent political rhetoric. Hope for a brighter day while remaining pragmatic.

      • I do not have a miserable attitude towards life, Whidbey — I have a miserable attitude towards globalist fascist-communist agendas, and towards the weak-willed and weak-minded (such as you) who not only stand aside and allow those agendas to be put in place, but applaud your (and our) very enslavement.
        .
        How do YOU get out of bed everyday, Whidbey, being so clueless, so ignorant, so complacent, so naive and so gullible?

      • No kidding Whidbey. Every object within Jefferson’s grasp must represent negative adjectives A through Z. Everything a trigger, everything an angry shout out to the gods that Jefferson is not getting what he wants!

  2. I have an EV that I use specifically for community around Anchorage and to Girdwood and north to Talkeetna. I’ve never had any issues with a dead battery in winter. While I realize that really long trips in most EV’s are not doable in a convenient amount of time NOW, this article seems to not take into account American ingenuity and desire to be a world leader in a given industry. Do you really think that EV’s will be forever limited to 250 miles or less or range forever, or that there will never be improvements in battery charging technology that will allow for seamless charging in a short amount of time? Every new technology takes time to develop and to have sufficient infrastructure to support it. What the legislators in Wyoming are doing is silly and in the future such useless legislation will be embarrassing to recall. What happened to freedom of choice and freedom from “big government”?

    • Your self-righteous (and financially and technologically ignorant) virtue(sic)-signaling is not going to impress the crowd here, cman. Nor is your blind and quasi-religious faith in “progress as savior” going to cut the mustard here, either.
      .
      Now, why don’t you launch into a profanity-filled tirade in response, like poster “Matt” did a day or two ago.

      • I don’t feel the need to use profanity. I was merely stating my actual real world experience with an EV. Your reply didn’t actually address anything that I actually stated. As usual you launch into a bizarre tirade, but I’m not surprised. Its like you’re almost proud to be ignorant.

        • Also, you have to be in with current incrowd to speak glowing of future parameters of such “technologies” and not be “taken out” as we have seen in the past with water-powered technologies for instance. NO bursting of favored status enjoying status economics prematurely.

    • Have you seen what it takes to mine the cobalt for these batteries? The human rights atrocities tied to this are unimaginable. Look up cobalt mining in the Congo.

      • Have you ever seen what it takes to drill for oil in most parts of the world? Look up oil production in Azerbaijan, Iraq, Russia, Turkmenistan, the Niger Delta, and Algeria. Maybe you also remember the Exxon Valdez, the Amoco Cadiz, and the Thunderhorse spills…

        • DOG, Have you ever produced any tangible product in your entire existence, aside from fertilizer?

      • Hilarious comparison…. Yes do your research on mining for oil vs mining for batteries. Don’t forget to take into consideration the pollutants from fossil fuel vehicles. Get back to us on that. Genius…

      • Mark: “big government is telling us that we can only buy overpriced EV”. Really? Are you sure? Have you tried to buy a gasoline powered vehicle lately? I have. I did. No government strong men.

        • Demonstrating how completely and totally clueless you are.
          Do you really think Mark meant that was happening right now? Really? Or are you being deliberately obtuse?

      • Where do you live that the only vehicles available to you are EV’s? I myself just bought a hybrid car right here in Alaska so apparently there are still plenty of ICE vehicles available. Nice try though.

    • What Wyoming could be doing instead is working on building out EV infrastructure, but their legislature isn’t anymore interested in being productive than the US House GOP is… Regardless of what WY ranchers and roustabouts think, they won’t be able to get a new Chevy/GMC, Ford, or Ram diesel truck in 2036 because those manufacturers are moving away from them! Even a modern diesel is made up of as much electronics as it is ICE. Instead of evolving, they’re tickled pink to be owning the libs, except the aren’t…

      The technology is certainly advancing rapidly. There are dozens of startups ranging from new automotive manufacturers to companies working on new batteries and EV motors–this tech will be leaps and bounds ahead in a few more years, never mind in another 12 years. In 2005, we didn’t have any iPhones and by 2015, the iPhone was more powerful than your standard desktop computer. But maybe they don’t have cell phones in Wyoming so they aren’t aware of how fast technology is advancing.

      • I sense another dogmatic and blind believer in the Myth of Progress here.
        .
        Unlike actual scientists, Fan, you fail to realize that there are fundamental limits, on everything — including technology. Those limits in many cases have already been reached, or are about to be, making your misguided and delusional belief in “ever onward and upward” just a wish fulfillment fantasy.

        • Specific to MRAK Fan’s point, which fundamental limits have been reached? What EXACTLY is in the way of MRAK Fan’s optimistic and probable prediction?

          Or is it that your restricted, negative worldview allows no innovation, nothing clever or hopeful, nothing to be true that you don’t say is true?

          • Lucinda, the difference between you and Fan, and myself, is that I do pretend that my fantasies and my desires have any connection to, or any automatic bearing on, objective reality.
            .
            Just like your radical leftist anti-scientific denial of biological gender demonstrates, you leftist extremists somehow, childishly and insanely, believe that believing in something — or worse, trying to make everyone ELSE believe in something — can make it so. I do not hold to that delusional belief.

        • It is referred to as “fundamental laws of physics.”
          Energy in must equal energy out. So far, no one has been able to bypass that one.
          There is a limit to the chemical energy storage capability of materials. Yes, combining them in different ways has yielded different, and sometimes better results, but there is a limit to the amount of energy you can cram into a cubic centimeter of materials.
          .
          But, leftists insist on living in the world the “way it should be” not the world the way it is.
          .
          Maybe someday these theoretical technologies will become marketable. And, I will be excited to see it happen. But, basing sweeping public policy on “this is coming any day now.” is magical thinking.

        • Thank goodness people like you were ignored when they said we couldn’t land a man on the moon. You suffer from a severe lack of vision and have no belief in American ingenuity/exceptionalism.

          • Landing a man on the moon was a matter of working within known physics.
            Creating green energy in the magnitude required to go all electric within the bounds of known physics, chemistry, etc… is magical thinking.

    • All well and good yes but then let the market take care of it rather than illogical environmental zealots dictating to us what we will do. If there continues to be amazing innovation and development than government does not need to force the issue. Even if there wasn’t they are grievously over-reaching. It seems Wyoming is making a statement along those lines.

    • You have been sold a bill of goods. The only group that benefits from EV use are those that live in densely populated urban areas and the only benefit they reap is that the polluting source is removed from their immediate area. The fossil fuel burning power plant that they all rely upon simply happens to be belching its exhaust into someone else’s environment… perhaps 100 or more miles from the urban environment it serves.

    • Curiously, no one has yet to find a way to bypass the law of conservation of energy. There is a limit to the amount of energy we can cram into the chemicals in batteries, and it is not terribly likely we will find some way for the existing chemicals to accept charge significantly faster than they do today.
      .
      Yes, improvements are in the works, but let’s all avoid making sweeping, and potentially damaging, public policy based on hopes and maybes.

    • Cman, while I appreciate your comments and agree wholeheartedly with your point of view, you must realize that rational viewpoints are not welcome here on MRAK. The currency of the realm here consists primarily of conspiracy, half-truth, illogic, closed-mindedness, and outright hatred of those with differing opinions.

      And I’ll be getting an electric car soon, and enjoy saving a bundle on the energy needed to drive myself around.

      • “The currency of the realm here consists primarily of conspiracy, half-truth, illogic, closed-mindedness, and outright hatred of those with differing opinions.”.
        .
        Were you looking in your rainbow flag mirror when you wrote that, Whidbey the Cur?

          • Lucinda, once again, you miss an opportunity to make a meaningful , lucid or pertinent point or comment. Oh, but that’s right, you radical leftist catfish believe that snarking on your opponents somehow qualifies as “debate”.

      • Saving a bundle on the energy needed to drive around?
        Really? Do you get some kind of discount on electricity? I do not know of one. Oh… and the time required to charge up the EV’s batteries is not an issue for you, I am sure.
        .
        I know, that even at today’s inflated fuel prices, I can purchase a whole lot of gas or diesel for the additional cost of an EV. And, let’s not forget the estimated $25K required to replace the battery, long before the rest of the car reaches end of life.
        .
        But, if you want an EV, you get one. And, I am sure that you will insist on charging it strictly from wind/solar power, and will not plug it into a grid that uses coal or natural gas to generate electricity.

      • Doggie, I agree with your premise regarding Rational View Points not being welcome on Must Read. I say this because Suzanne publishes your pathetically inane logorrhea regularly.

      • Just saw an article from the Mirror, mirror.co.uk. A driver chose to take his all electric Volvo on a drive he normally uses his diesel car for. While (at UK prices) the round trip would cost his about 50GBP, he wanted to see what the advantage of a electric was.
        .
        So, he charged up at home, about 20GBP. And, had to stop about half way to Bristol to top off (to 60% charge), which set him back another 19.62GBP and ate up 40 minutes.
        .
        He continued charging when he could, 5GBP got him an additional 30 miles range. On the return trip, he pushed it to get to a super fast charge, and dropped an additional 43.45GBP. Total cost for the trip was well over twice what it would cost to use his diesel car.
        .
        So, tell me again how you are going to save a bundle?

      • Bit more on the cost to run an electric vehicle.
        Per a recent report from the Anderson Economic Group (AEG), the current cost to drive the average electric vehicle 100 miles is: $11.60 if charged primarily at home, and $14.40 if using commercial chargers on the road. Whereas the average petroleum powered vehicle costs $11.29 to go the same 100 miles.
        .
        EVs are not money savers.

    • Cman, I’m with you on the ingenuity thing. I’m also big on personal freedom and letting market forces work and eschewing top down government mandates.
      The problem with EV’s, ( and I like them) , is where will you get the power for charging? Obviously it will take years to build the infrastructure.
      BTW, Elon Musk has said pretty much the same thing.
      Cheers, and I hope join you in the electric lane someday!

    • True. EVs have their place, and they will continue to improve in range and versatility. In some situations they are ideal, in others not. I just wish Government would get out of pushing for (or against) them, let market forces decide their fate. If somebody wants to buy one because it suits their situation, great! If not, it should not be forced on them.

  3. What Wyoming is doing is a perfect example of what needs to be done nationwide. If you live in in California, AZ, and other states that do not get cold, be my guest!
    Alaska, Wyoming, Minnesota and other cold states need to stamp it out as well.
    When you need to install more energy consuming charge stations for these things that right there tells you how inconvenient and ridiculous EV cars and trucks are. Worthless unless it’s in a big warm city!
    Start looking at the cost OF EV. From top to bottom its an energy hog with batteries that cost a pretty penny to change out. Like ANY BATTERY… Cold kills it. Don’t care how often you charge it.. Eventually it will die.
    I will take diesel and gas ANY DAY OF THE WEEK.
    If you think you are saving the environment by using one, you are so misinformed. Do your research.

      • Yes. It is.
        Tell me, do you know of a more energy dense product than petroleum? (HINT: Aside from refined nuclear fuel, there is not one.)
        Need to keep a fleet of cars and trucks running, keep your economy flowing? You need petroleum, end of story. No existing, or proposed energy source is adequate to meet the needs of the population. None.
        .
        Sincerely;
        Maury Suttman

      • How about more fueling stations for Natural Gas vehicles, especially those utilizing Renewable NG? It just makes more sense to burn that RNG, rather than let it into the atmosphere IMO. For now those NG vehicles are some local fleets and overland semi-trucks.

        • Bill, I agree with you on this!
          But to be fair, natural gas is not a very practical fuel for individual cars and personal vehicles, as the bulky tanks required to store it onboard would severely limit the space and/or cargo capability of most non-commercial vehicles, for which it can be practical.

    • Ah, but people who drive EVs cherish their FREEDOM! Freedom, baby, right? Remember that?

      Freedom to manufacture EVs. Freedom to buy them. Freedom to drive them. Freedom to freeze to death in them if they fail. Just like you all cherish your rights to own whatever deadly firearm your little hearts desire.

      For being so in favor of Freedom, Conservatives sure have a penchant for trying to control that of others – their freedom to marry whomever they wish, their freedom to choose whether or not to bear children, their freedom to have a non-Christian religion, or none at all, and….their freedom to drive electric vehicles. Such hypocrisy.

      • Whidbey, your radical leftist divorcement from reality, and psychological projection, is on display here once again.
        .
        Nowadays it is virtually entirely YOU, you radical leftist extremists, who are forcing actions, words and beliefs on others —- your so-called ‘woke’ insanity, you bans on this and bans on that, your forced Wuhan Virus non-vaccines on hundreds of millions, your ESG politics-masquerading-as-business, and on and on and on. EVERYTHING about the radical left agenda involves force, dictates, and COERCION. You are arrogant and intolerant statists to the core, and raging hypocrites to boot.

      • Do not get into a debate about which side of the political aisle is more “live and let live” there Whidbey. You will lose.

    • You should learn about the different battery chemistries. There is so much confusion. “Like ANY BATTERY… Cold kills it.” Not true for all batteries. Lithium batteries for example actually perform well in the cold, and their self-discharge rate decreases with the temperature. What they are up against is moving a vehicle which is cold and experiencing more resistance at every moving part, simultaneously requiring more output for various heaters. They can also have difficulty charging at very cold temperatures, which is why a lot of EVs incorporate battery pre-heaters that kick on when they are plugged in.

      But most batteries are not “killed” by cold, at least not Lithium. You may mean they see degradation in their capabilities, but this isn’t a fault of the chemistry as much as it is for the increased loads they are powering. Unless you are talking about Lead Acid or Alkaline, which DO see significant reduction in their available capacity at low temperatures.

  4. I have yet to see Juneau’s electric bus. Last I heard it was broken down and reps from the manufacturer were trying to fix it but it has lots of glitches. The windshield wipers don’t work, love that one. We have never gotten good footage of the environmental damage caused by lithium mining. The Atacama Desert has been decimated by this practice, partly to blame are the Chinese who care nothing about the environment.

  5. I’m ok with the theater. It reminds me of a small town in the lower 48/southeast, years ago, that mandated ownership of a firearm by every citizen. They never enforced the law and never had any intentions of doing so, but it sure made a statement. Lots of urine soaked undergarments on the lefty side.

    Seems that is what Wyoming is doing here. No one is going to stop anyone in that state from buying an EV, but no one is going out of their way to accommodate EVs, either. So be a big boy or girl (sorry, the only choices) and figure out if you want one or not. Lets face it, if I go to Isreal, I don’t demand they provide me with a ham sandwich.

  6. Suzanne, good article with a glaring error. The Chevy Volt is an American-made plug-in hybrid with a 400+ mile range, more than most other cars. It is not an EV only car. I routinely get over 55 miles using electricity, than switch seamlessly to gasoline for power. I can drive from Fairbanks to the Kenai without refueling. Unfortunately, Chevy discontinued the Volt in 2019. They do have an EV called the Bolt, with the usual EV issues.

  7. I hope it passes. All electric vehicles should be banned; they are a HUGE threat to the free market and consumer led economy. Not to mention all the jobs gas stations and oil fields provide would just dissapear. What are all those people supposed to do if we start turning gas stations into parks so that liberals can stage drag shows on them to kids.

    • All ICE vehicles should be banned; they are a HUGE threat to the free market and consumer-led economy. Not to mention all the buggy and buggy whip manufacturing jobs that would just disappear! What are all those people supposed to do if we start turning horse stables into gas stations so that liberals can buy Alaskan petroleum at them?

  8. We will destroy the Earth in pursuit of “green energy”
    .
    Few points:
    1. MiningWatch Canada is estimating that “[Three] billion tons of mined metals and minerals will be needed to power the energy transition” – a “massive” increase especially for six critical minerals: lithium, graphite, copper, cobalt, nickel and rare earth minerals.
    2. Purifying a single tonne of rare earths requires using at least 200 cubic meters of water, which then becomes polluted with acids and heavy metals. On top of that, imagine the destruction and energy required to obtain these essential metals:
    18,740 pounds of purified rock to produce 2.2 pounds of vanadium
    35,275 pounds of ore for 2.2 pounds of cerium
    110,230 pounds of rock for 2.2 pounds of gallium
    2,645,550 pounds of ore to get 2.2 pounds of lutecium
    Also staggering amounts of ore are needed for other metals.
    3. There is nothing refined about mining. It involves crushing rock, and then using a concoction of chemical reagents such as sulphuric and nitric acid, a long and highly repetitive process using many different procedures to obtain a rare-earth concentrate close to 100% purity.
    4. Over the next 30 years 7.5 billion of us, we will consume more minerals than the last 70,000 years or the past 500 generations,
    .
    If anyone thinks EVs are clean, they are wrong. If anyone thinks “green economy” will result in anything other than massive shortages across the board, they are delusional. This push for EVs focuses solely on tailpipe emissions and ignores all other factors that go into an electric vehicle.
    .
    Wyoming is doing the right thing, in the wrong way. Blind pushes for “green” energy without taking into account the widespread damage we are causing will harm the planet much worse then driving a diesel truck.

    • Alan Dangour just gave a speech at Davos that outlined the horrific (his words, not mine) impacts of mining the metals required for “green” energy.
      It is worth looking at.
      .
      Are we really going to destroy the environment to save it?

  9. Of course electric vehicles aren’t well-suited to the wide-open prairies of Wyoming! After all, everything has its place – in the same way that a nice compact Glock is a much better choice when out shopping, than an AR with a high-capacity mag. Don’t you all agree, folks?

    • Dawg, good point, let the consumer decide what is best suited for them.
      As for concealed carry when I’m in Los Anchorage I prefer a Glock 43X. However I keep my Glock 20 in my SUV in case I need some fire power.
      Naturally I’ve got an Aramalite Rifle (AR-15), a couple of shot guns, Rifles and revolvers.
      I suppose it’s a mission dependent kind of thing, that being what to carry when shopping. I like my .375 H&H for example when I’m shopping for Bears.
      What type of Heater do you usually pack?

  10. I have been driving EV’s for over 17 years. My first couple were conversions. I have no less than 5 EV’s in my garage right now. If there is anything I have learned in building, driving, charging, repairing, modifying, testing, worrying if I was going to make it to my destination on the charge I had left, or if it would be charged by the time I needed it for work……. is that I’m glad I still have my old diesel truck. I’ve driven the ALCAN in it 3 round trips towing everything I owned in the world and once one way. Twice with two EV’s in tow. The EV’s never would have made it on any of those trips alone. This is what I know folks from my own experience. There is a thing called Range Anxiety. It exists in all of you driving them when you see your expected range decrease when the car is left out in the cold. In an EV you ARE limited by range and time. If there was anything a controlling government would want to control your movement across our country, having everybody drive an EV would be the way to do it. I am sorry for being a sell out to the EV community that I have promoted for so many years. But there is no way I will be giving up my ability to load up 350 gallons of diesel in my truck and drive all the way to Florida if I wanted or needed too.

    @Whidbey Thedog – I prefer my .357 mag – its more reliable than a Glock and holds about as many rounds as a compact. Its really the better choice for where I shop.

  11. The above comments bring up a great point:
    All of the guns/God/Constitution citizens say the same thing. If you want an EV, go buy one. Just don’t expect me to buy one, too.
    But all of the socialists/anti Constitution types say the same thing, too. We like EVs, therefore EVERYONE should be required to buy one.

    If all of you that think EVs will ‘save the planet’, formed a co-op, and bought your vehicles and your own charging stations, then you could prove to the rest of us old throwbacks that we were wrong. No one is going to stop you from this endeavour. Quite the opposite, we don’t care if you do this. Just as we wish you would stop caring whether we buy EVs or not.

      • Billy, but when they cut off your legs? Then what? Maybe like that old Cat Stevens song, Moonshadow: “I won’t have to walk no more”. Like that Billy?

        John D. Rockefeller didn’t need a Government Mandate to get folks to buy his Coal Oil for their lanterns, nope, consumers did the math. Turns out Whale oil was way more expensive to produce and it soon lost market share to Rockefeller’s product. Oh, and BTW, Rockefeller did more than any man born before or since to ” Save the Whales”. Let that sink in.

        Oil provides the most efficient method to transport people per seat mile through the air, it’s not going away anytime soon. Hee Hee

        • What’s this about coal oil and air travel Bobby? I was only speaking about not being required to buy an EV. Of course you may not need to walk either-get an e-bike. Heheh!

        • He excels at doing that.
          Well, not missing the point, so much as evading it. Because like every other radical leftist, he has no logical or rational arguments to back up his emotive group-think and faith-based political biases and opinions.

    • Paul in the Valley, (not solely directed at you)
      I think everybody should have an EV. But they should not be disillusioned for what the purpose of having one is. I am speaking from my Gods honest experience and not from what I want everybody to think. What the EV is good for (practically) is driving 75% to 95% of your driving miles annually for trips less than 50 miles a day. If you can say you actually drive less than 50 miles a day, day in and day out, year round, then the EV is for you. If the cost of the product is low enough and the reliability is good then the payback is there. But from what I know now after 17 years of watching this fiasco is that the cost is too much, and the reliability is not yet there. (My dad has been watching it longer than me as I remember going to look at a CitiCar with him back in 1975 – he has still never bought one) Every person that is driving a commercial EV today will regret some aspects. I guarantee it, but nobody will admit it. Ask me how I know. Also I do not know a single person that doesn’t take at least a 200 mile trip at least once a month. Unless you are considered among the richest of the population you are not going to be able to afford the 300 mile Tesla. (How’s that working on getting all the way to Fairbanks for you folks this time of year – if you would care to honestly comment)?

      For me, 17 years has taught me that more important than making some legislator happy or some CEO or Oligarch rich, is that nobody will limit my travel. I’ll keep the diesel, because I can make fuel from fish oil, veggie oil, or used motor oil (which EV’s also still use in gear boxes and transmissions).

      When the power shuts off I venture to guess that 90% to 95% (may be more) of EV owners will not be able to charge without using fuel oil or gas of some kind. Because very few on this list know what a downdraft wood gasifier is, and even fewer have one.

      People please keep in mind that new technologies take a long time to prove out, or else they don’t prove out at all. Don’t be part of the hype. Try it for yourself. Tell us your experience so we can all learn. Don’t bias your judgements. The only people you hurt by that are yourself, and everyone else. If you truly are a socialist you would want your judgement to benefit everybody. Right? 😉

      P.S.. I have lots of heaters but that is for a different thread.

  12. At least you admit that your side is working to force the rest of us out of gas/diesel powered vehicles. You can play semantics with ‘not requiring the purchase’ vs eliminating the supply, but the result is the same; you have made the decision for me as to what I may drive.

    • Paul in the Valley, “Please forgive them, they know not what they do.” I really think that. I don’t think they have any idea what they are promoting. EV’s are cool, they are zippy skippy. In certain cases they are economical. Do they work for everybody? No. Will they EVer? No. Will there always be alternatives in this country I live in? Yes. I guarantee you that every one of the socialists that want you to conform their idea of utopia, will shop around for alternatives. They want choices, and you can have them too as long as they are the same as theirs. They don’t even know they are doing it. They really don’t. Watch.

      • “Please forgive them, they know not what they do.”
        .
        I am good with that. I am not good with forgiving them when they know exactly what harm the are doing, but insist on doing it anyway.

  13. Hmmm, a few sane and relevant comments (thank you to Elizabeth Henry, cman, Patrocles, Oosik, Paul). Mostly invective and ideology otherwise from people who apparently have little experience with various combinations of powered vehicles.

    IMHO, purely electric vehicles are not yet practical in most circumstances. Where they are, a golf cart would likely be as useful, and much less damaging to the environment. A purely EV starts out with an incredible deficit by whatever “greentech” scorecard is being used, and will not break even with a conventional gas engine car for many years if ever.

    Plug-in hybrids on the other hand, are a very nice balance between the technologies. Hybrid technology alone adds considerable gas mileage. The batteries are smaller and lighter, with less environmental impact. Plugging in saves even more gas for shorter trips, which are the majority at least for me.

    I bought a Prius in Anchorage in 2002, commuted with it for twenty years (265,000 miles) and sold it to a friend recently. After we replaced a couple of battery cells (about $60/each), it is still getting about 42 mpg. Only significant maintenance costs were oil changes, brakes about every 100,000 miles, and new injectors once. And a new 12v battery every five years or so. I also have a 2008 and and a 2010 Prius, with similar mpg and low maintenance costs.

    I recently replaced my oldest Prius with a 2017 Chevy Volt, which I purchased used. American made, with about the best EV only range of any current plug-in hybrid of around 60 miles before using the gasoline engine. My current MPGe is about 90. In real world terms, I buy a gallon or two of gas each month. This month I splurged and bought 3.5 gallons, because I made a number of 120+ mile trips. The range estimate on the gas gauge says 404 miles, but I’ve never driven to empty yet. A full charge of the 18 KWh battery is about 4.5 hours (2.88 KW, 12 amps, 240v), or 9+ hours (1.5 KW, 12 amps, 115v), or with limited power available 18+ hours (1KW, 8 amps, 115v). Most of my average driving is the 15-40 mile trips, which do not fully drain the battery, so charging times are less. I pay about $0.40/KW from the utility, and much less when I transfer energy from my 17 KWh home storage battery that’s fed by solar panels. By the time I need to think about a new battery in 20 years or so (if I’m still around), I expect lighter batteries with better energy density will be available.

    As you may have concluded, I’m an engineer. I’m not an environmental ideologue, I’m a pragmatic motorist who won’t put all my eggs in a single basket, either electricity or gasoline. If the electricity is out, I burn gas. If gas is scarce or really expensive, I use electricity and adjust my driving. I can still drive 20+ miles per day just on solar power if the world breaks. (Not sure where I would be driving). I think the market will winnow the technologies if governments will stay out of their way. You buy whatever vehicle suits you that you can afford and maintain. I won’t buy a Tesla because you don’t own the software. Just like Microsoft, they lease it to you. So leasing is the only way to drive a Tesla, and don’t claim you are doing anything to benefit the environment if you do.

    As an aside, I have access to a 4WD Yukon gas SUV, though the hybrids tow a utility trailer just fine. I prefer the 1911 Colt Commander in .45, and a Mossberg Mariner with slugs and 00 buckshot for bears. Springfield 30.06 180gr boat-tails for moose. Ruger 10/.22 for just plain fun shooting.

    • You didn’t say Ken but do you hunt bears with that shotgun? I also own a Springfield 30.06 but use 338 Win Mag for moose, as grizzly bears are possible along with those moose. And I also keep a Labrador Retriever along in the moose stand as added nose and ears for bears.

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